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Briefing of diplomatic correspondents by Foreign Ministry spokesman Gregory Delavekouras
[on the elections in Albania]
- “Greece is monitoring the carrying out of municipal and community elections in Albania very carefully, and especially in areas where the bulk of the Greek national minority resides.”
- “According to initial indications and the impressions of international observers, last Sunday’s elections went smoothly in general, though some irregularities and instances of violence were reported, unfortunately.”
- “But what is important, and what we are now waiting for, is the completion of the process with the counting of all the votes and the official announcement of the results – a process that, I must say, is somewhat delayed, which has resulted in the international observer team’s deciding to extend their stay in the country.”
- “As concerns the Greek national minority, we see it as positive that there was increased participation this year in the election process, indicating that the Greeks of Albania maintain strong ties with their birthplace and care about progress in Albania, putting forward a strong presence.”
- “The normalization of political life is a necessary condition for Albania’s moving ahead with the reforms it needs so that we can see a relaunching of the country’s European course; a course that Greece wants to support strongly.”
[on the recent statements from Fyrom President Ivanov]
- “Greece’s collocutor is the government of the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, and we expect the government that comes out of the elections to have a constructive stance that will allow us to make progress.”
- “The proposals Greece has put on the table are very constructive and comprise a framework for our really reaching a just solution, a viable solution, a solution that will allow the two countries to improve their bilateral relations; a solution that will open the way to FYROM’s Euroatlantic perspective.”
[on Greek-Turkish relations]
- “There is no policy of appeasement. There is no policy of backing down. There is no relinquishing of sovereign rights by Greece, and that is clear in every statement and every interview from the Foreign Ministry’s political leadership and the government.”
- “Greece fully defends its rights and is exercising a dynamic foreign policy whose point of reference is the same longstanding goals: defence of our interests and strengthening of the countries international position.”
Complete transcript of the briefing (translation):
Mr. Delavekouras: Good afternoon. I’ll start with the Ministers’ programmes for the coming week.
At 13:15 today, Foreign Minister Dimitris Droutsas will meet at the Foreign Ministry with EU Climate Action Commissioner Connie Hedegaard. Deputy Foreign Minister Spyros Kouvelis will also be attending that meeting.
Today and tomorrow, Mr. Droutsas will be accompanying the Prime Minister to Oslo, where they are to take part in a conference being hosted by the Policy Network think tank. The Norwegian Prime Minister will also be participating in that.
On Saturday, 14 May, Mr. Droutsas will meet with the UN Secretary Generals special envoy for Libya, Mr. Abdul Ilah Khatib, who will also be received by the Prime Minister on Saturday afternoon, as far as I know.
At 13:15 on Monday, 16 May, Mr. Droutsas will meet with the Russian Deputy Foreign Minister for European Affairs, Mr. Grushko.
From 09:00 to 11:00 on Tuesday, 17 May, Mr. Droutsas will participate with Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Grushko in a joint Greek-Russian conference on European Security, at the Divani Caravel Hotel.
From 10:10 to 11:00 on Thursday, 19 May, Mr. Droutsas will address the Economist Conference, at the Lagonisi Grand Resort, on “Driving the foreign policy agenda in view of the current developments in the region”.
From 16:00 to 18:00 today, Deputy Foreign Minister Kouvelis will be participating in a meeting on “Economic Diplomacy Seminars at the national center for public diplomacy”. That meeting will take place at the Foreign Ministry’s Sofianopoulou Hall.
Mr. Kouvelis will be in Thessaloniki tomorrow, Friday the 13th, to speak at the 4th Innovation and Entrepreneurship Conference, which is on “Green Technologies: Energy, Transport, Agricultural Production”. While in Thessaloniki, Mr. Kouvelis will also visit the Science Center and Technology Museum "NOESIS", as well as the National Center for Research and Technology Hellas.
From 14 to 18 May, Mr. Kouvelis will be in China for bilateral meetings. This visit marks the opening of the Athens-Beijing direct flight.
Finally, from 18 to 20 May, Mr. Kouvelis will be in Egypt for bilateral meetings. He will be accompanied on his visit by a business delegation.
I would like to say a couple of words about the election process that is still under way in Albania. Greece is monitoring the carrying out of municipal and community elections in Albania very carefully, and especially in areas where the bulk of the Greek national minority resides. According to initial indications and the impressions of international observers, last Sunday’s elections went smoothly in general, though some irregularities and instances of violence were reported, unfortunately.
But what is important, and what we are now waiting for, is the completion of the process with the counting of all the votes and the official announcement of the results – a process that, I must say, is somewhat delayed, which has resulted in the international observer team’s deciding to extend their stay in the country.
As concerns the Greek national minority, we see it as positive that there was increased participation this year in the election process, indicating that the Greeks of Albania maintain strong ties with their birthplace and care about progress in Albania, putting forward a strong presence.
The normalization of political life is a necessary condition for Albania’s moving ahead with the reforms it needs so that we can see a relaunching of the country’s European course; a course that Greece wants to support strongly.
Finally, I would like to mention that on 17 May, the Foreign Ministries of Greece and the Russian Federation are co-hosting, here in Athens, a European Security Conference on “The Politico-Military Dimension of European Security: Proposals and Perspectives”. The Conference programme has already been put on the Foreign Ministry website. It will be conducted in English and will be open to the public. I think you will already have received your emails with the programme and invitation.
Foreign Minister Dimitris Droutsas and Russian Deputy Foreign Minister for European Affairs Alexander Grushko will make the opening speeches. Speakers will also include politicians, diplomats, military personnel and researchers, with extensive experience in European security issues, from Greece, Russia and other countries, including Sweden, Hungary, Germany and Ukraine.
This Conference is being held at a time of multiple developments in the politico-military sector, and it is the first time a conference on European security has been co-hosted by two Foreign Ministries. As such, one of the event’s main goals is a broad discussion of the roles played by Greece and Russia in European security.
That’s it for announcements. Your questions, please.
K. Fryssa: EU Home Affairs Ministers are meeting today on the Schengen Treaty, a possible revision of the Schengen Treaty. What is Greece’s position?
Mr. Delavekouras: There are the relevant statements that Mr. Papoutsis has made, as well as those of the Foreign Minister. Greece, as we have said, thinks that the debate that is under way is vital.
We believe that there is much that can be improved in the system. There is a lot that can be done to distribute the burden being shouldered right now by countries on the periphery; countries on the EU’s external borders.
We have also said, however, that we need to safeguard what we have already achieved: the free movement of persons, which is a real achievement of the EU and one of the pillars of European unification.
Beyond that, there is a lot of potential for improvements to the system via the collaboration of all of Europe on the technical side of things, on the economic side. There is potential for revision of Dublin II, and we believe that this dialogue that is starting right now needs to look at sharing of the burden, which is currently out of proportion to our country’s capabilities, precisely due to geographical position.
A, Voudouri: Is there anything to announce on Greece’s intention to assist with humanitarian aid in Libya?
Mr. Delavekouras: First of all, let me say that we will very soon be in a position to announce the departure of the vessel. The vessel is ready, as is the aid.
There are some final details that are being settled with regard to the sending of a medical unit to Benghazi, as well as the sending of a team from the Foreign Ministry that will stay in Benghazi and liaise with the National Transitional Council (NTC).
Beyond that, we have this Saturday’s visit from the UN Secretary General’s special envoy, Mr. Khatib, here in Athens. We think this is an important meeting. Greece has declared from the very outset of the crisis that we need to look for a political solution; that we cannot achieve a sustainable solution in Libya through military means alone.
All of our efforts are moving in this direction. And also from early on, in the Contact Group meetings, we have said that the UN needs to play the leading role in this effort. This is the context for the meetings the Secretary General’s special envoy is having on Saturday – from what we know, he will be travelling on to Tripoli, Libya, from here.
We will continue these efforts. We will continue to make efforts in the humanitarian sector so that we can get to the initiation of a political process as soon as possible; a process that can resolve this issue.
M. Pollatos: Can you clarify some things on that. How much is chartering the vessel costing? How much aid is there, and exactly what humanitarian aid are we sending? Why the big delay? The hostilities have been under way for some time now. And some information on the team that will undertake to liaise with the NTC. Thank you.
Mr. Delavekouras: I can’t tell you right now how much it is going to cost, but when we announce the sending of the aid, I will naturally be able to inform you of the cost. It includes foodstuffs and medical supplies, and we are also planning to send a medical unit that will be able to offer first aid there. There is no delay. The humanitarian needs in Libya are great right now, and all the member states of the UN, under the coordination of the UN, are sending aid to relieve the humanitarian crisis. Your other question was about the team that is going to stay on?
M. Pollatos: And whether it will include doctors.
Mr. Delavekouras: Yes, of course.
M. Pollatos: And the Foreign Ministry personnel?
Mr. Delavekouras: A small team from the Foreign Ministry will stay on to liaise with the NTC in Benghazi.
M. Pollatos: Are there any details: how many people, anything?
Mr. Delavekouras: The details on that team have not been announced yet.
A. Fourlis: Can you tell us what the Foreign Ministry leadership thinks of the fact that this coming Monday, when you are receiving the Russian Deputy Foreign Minister, diplomatic personnel will be demonstrating in from of the Ministry, politely and silently, from what I understand. But the scene will be anything but ordinary.
Mr. Delavekouras: As you can understand, I cannot, as the Foreign Ministry spokesperson, comment on the actions and activities of a union to which I belong, so I won’t comment on that particular issue.
S. Ristovska: Mr. Spokesman, regarding the name issue. President Ivanov made a statement a couple of days ago, saying that we can’t accept a compound name with a geographical qualifier, but we might be able to discuss “Republic of Macedonia – Skopje”. Any comment? Because Greece says that red lines are …
Mr. Delavekouras: First of all, Mr. Ivanov has made various statements on the name issue from time to time; statements that are sometimes borne out, and other times aren’t. As you know, the two governments are in negotiations. Greece’s collocutor is the government of the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, and we expect the government that comes out of the elections to have a constructive stance that will allow us to make progress.
The proposals Greece has put on the table are very constructive and comprise a framework for our really reaching a just solution, a viable solution, a solution that will allow the two countries to improve their bilateral relations; a solution that will open the way to FYROM’s Euroatlantic perspective.
This is exactly what we are waiting for from the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, and the solution will have to be a solution with a geographical qualifier, for use in relation to everyone (erga omnes). I think this is clear and has been acknowledged by everyone.
S. Ristovska: So, “Republic of Macedonia – Skopje” is not within the framework that …
Mr. Delavekouras: It’s not even a proposal.
N. Meletis: Mr. Spokesman, I want to ask whether the Diplomatic Academy is planning a reciprocal visit of Embassy Secretaries, for crisis management training, to Diyarbakir, for example, or to some other part of Kurdistan, in southeastern Turkey.
Mr. Delavekouras: Unfortunately, in the past two and a half years there has not been a new class of Foreign Ministry Attachés, so nothing is being planned directly. Beyond that, however, we do of course consider it advisable for Greek diplomatic attachés to go on trips that are helpful for training.
N. Meletis: I assume you will have asked for something in return for receiving the young diplomats touring Thrace for the second year. That’s what I mean.
I repeat that the Greek Foreign Ministry draws up the attaché training programme based on the optimum choices for their correct training and preparation for carrying out their duties, so it is obvious that they will travel abroad, and we believe it is useful.
L. Kalarrytis: How does the Greek government see the fact that the Turkish diplomats are touring Thrace, and not some other place? Is it normal, to be expected, welcome?
Journalist: Is the Foreign Ministry aware of this visit.
Mr. Delavekouras: Yes, the Foreign Ministry is aware of this visit. The specific delegation has gone to Thessaloniki, Kavala and Thrace. Beyond that, I think that it’s clear that Greece has absolutely nothing to hide anywhere in the country. It is an open, democratic country where one can …
N. Meletis: I am asking specifically, how and why the Foreign Ministry gave its approval for the tour of Turkish diplomats to three places picked by Mr. Davutoglu. And we know exactly what they mean. You don’t get the symbolism? We’re not saying we have something to hide and that demon Turkish diplomats will uncover it.
Mr. Delavekouras: And I’m saying that our Diplomatic Academy carries out similar trips whenever deemed advisable for training.
N. Meletis: Has there been a trip to Kurdistan or Trabzon, Mr. Spokesman?
Mr. Delavekouras: There have been attaché trips …
N. Meletis: To Kurdistan?
Mr. Delavekouras: To Turkey.
M. Kourbela: I’d like to ask about the Frontex issue. Is there anything new, because from what I know, the Germans and Italians don’t want to strengthen control of their external borders through Frontex. What’s the Greek position on that?
Mr. Delavekouras: Frontex is continuing its intensive activities in Greece. It has increased controls along our land borders with Turkey – where we were coming under increased pressure – as well as in the sea region south of Crete, to confront a possible wave of illegal migration due to the crisis in North Africa.
As for border control on external borders, there are agreements, there is a framework, there is Frontex, which is a very important development for the European Union, precisely because it makes it possible for all the member states to deal with this phenomenon together.
Greece’s position on this matter is that it is a European matter, not a national one. Our position is that no single member state can deal with it through unilateral actions. We need the collective action of the European Union, and Frontex is the best response.
M. Kourbela: Excuse me, do you mean ad hoc collective action, or on a permanent basis?
Mr. Delavekouras: No, Frontex is not ad hoc. Frontex is an EU institution that functions continuously.
M. Kourbela: Yes, but strengthened control, for example, in Evros, is the ad hoc activity – foreigners were brought in for it. It isn’t on a permanent basis. That’s what I wanted to say.
Mr. Delavekouras: It is continuing, because there is a need for its presence.
A. Fourlis: Can we stay on this issue? Can you categorically assure us that the upcoming decision from the EU on the possible withdrawal – under certain conditions – of free movement and a return to passport control will be taken unanimously and not via special majority? Because there is information to the effect that the decision will be taken by special majority, and I was wondering how you would react to that.
Mr. Delavekouras: It’s way too early to be discussing any details. Right now, just to say where the process stands, the Commission has submitted some proposals based on the mandate it got from the European Council.
The Citizen Protection Ministers will discuss these proposals on an initial level. A discussion on the level of heads of state and government, the European Council, will follow. That will produce guidelines for the drawing up of a regulation. So it really is too early to be discussing decision-making.
In any case, as you know, Greece is not alone in this discussion. There is a lot of regular coordination with all the countries in our region facing the same problems as Greece. And within this framework, there is cooperation, there are proposals being put forward by these countries; proposals that impact the formulation of the final text. So we need to give this process time.
I set out the principles based on which we are participating in the debate. We believe that it is useful and necessary for this discussion to take place, because there really is a lot of pressure and all of the weight is falling on very few countries. We have to share the burden differently.
A. Fourlis: One more question. Is there anything new on the NGO audit? You promised March. You announced that the data would come out in March, and it’s now May.
Mr. Delavekouras: There’s been a delay. We talked about this last week, as well. There has been a delay. The political leadership wants to put this issue to rest, to clear it up, so a short delay will be made up for by the result. I think we will very soon be in a position to announce the results of the inquiry carried out, and those results will then be submitted to Parliament.
N. Meletis: This is an inquiry into an accounting error made based on a program – there is another specific issue. How much money was disbursed from this fund, from the Ministry budget, to NGOs? It has taken all these months to find the answer?
Mr. Delavekouras: Yes, but all the data will be compiled and presented.
N. Meletis: Right. Can you tell us the sum, and then compile the data?
Mr. Delavekouras: I repeat, I don’t know the amount at this time, but …
N. Meletis: There is a matter of credibility at stake here.
Mr. Delavekouras: The whole audit is in the final stage, so all the data is there. What I’m saying is that it will all be announced together, as soon as the procedures are completed, because the Ministry wants to close this issue. Beyond that, regarding disbursements, as I have said before, they are recorded by the Finance Ministry, by the implementation of the budget.
P. Papathanasiou: Mr. Spokesman, regarding the Albanian elections, earlier you said correctly that the climate was milder than it has been in past elections. Nevertheless, there were serious incidents.
I note, based on news reports and not observer reports, that we had the arrest of an armed gang outside Tirana on the day of the elections. The gang is accused of attacks on the opposition. Up until 17:30 on Sunday, the Albanian police had reported 11 violent incidents throughout the country, and there was also an attack on a private station, the crew of a private TV station.
The first part of my question is whether you see all these as comprising the framework of a healthy state that wants to join the EU?
The second part, regarding the Greek minority. I will also agree with what you said: that participation was higher than in other elections. But the competition between the two parties – the Unity for Human Rights Party and Mega – has created intense controversy among the Greeks of Northern Epirus, while we saw Himara lost for the first time.
In fact, the Unity for Human Rights Party candidate, Mr. Bolanos, was received by the Prime Minister, a meeting that Albanian nationalism used as propaganda against his candidacy. I’d like your comments on that. Thank you very much.
Mr. Delavekouras: First of all, let me note some things I said earlier. There were, in fact, violent incidents. These are, first of all, condemnable, and we note them as well, precisely because they show that Albania needs to strengthen its democratic institutions. The international community’s presence is still needed to ensure that we can at least have elections in which the people can express their will.
These elections were smoother than past elections. That is the initial picture we have, and we are naturally waiting for the whole process to be completed. I also want to underscore – and I think this is an important element – the need for normalcy in political life.
Albania needs smooth political life if it is to be able to take the necessary steps, not just on its European course, but essentially to build a state that is modern, European, and first of all to protect the rights of its citizens – including human rights and minority rights – because our top priority, as you can understand, is the Greek national minority living in Albania.
As for Himara, to which you referred, let me say that according to the information we have so far, the Unity for Human Rights Party (PBDNJ) came first in Himara. Beyond that, it is not my place to comment on the performance of individual candidates, but I do note as very important the increased participation of members of the Greek national minority in the elections. It’s important because it shows the bond they have with Albania and the fact that they want to stand up and be counted, to help Albania move ahead.
A. Fourlis: I want to say that beyond everything you said, there is a letter by the President of the Union that was circulated, saying, among other things, that we are falling apart – it’s very caustic and doesn’t refer just to diplomats’ economic and institutional issues. It says, among other things, that we are falling apart, not due to the economic crisis, but due to a specific foreign policy of not straining our relations with Turkey and handing Greece’s sovereignty and sovereign rights to Turkey. Won’t you comment on that?
Mr. Delavekouras: Look, as I said before, as the spokesperson for the Foreign Ministry, I cannot comment on the actions or views – from what I understand, this is a letter from a member of the BoD, the President of the Diplomatic Service Union’s (DSU) BoD. As a member of the DSU and the Foreign Ministry spokesperson, I can’t comment on what another member of the DSU says. That’s not my role. If you want to discuss the substance of the issues, I’d be glad to. But I can’t enter into a discussion of the union activities of diplomatic personnel.
You can ask me whatever you want.
A. Fourlis: Then I want you to tell me this, whether …
There have been allegations from diplomatic circles, academic circles, from the opposition party – ever more intense and regarding the Foreign Minister’s most recent interview. Allegations of a policy of appeasement, of backing down from Turkey, of Greece’s not being there on the EEZ issue, and of a systematic failure to take a strong stance, claims or specific moves in the direction of declaration or delimitation, about everything we’ve been hearing and that I assume you have seen and read.
Mr. Delavekouras: First of all, I need to say that I won’t talk politics. I can’t go into the area of political disagreements – nor can I comment on the statements of union leaders. But as to the substance of the issues you raised, I must say that there is no policy of appeasement. There is no policy of backing down. There is no relinquishing of sovereign rights by Greece, and that is clear in every statement and every interview from the Foreign Ministry’s political leadership and the government.
Greece fully defends its rights and is exercising a dynamic foreign policy whose point of reference is the same longstanding goals: defence of our interests and strengthening of the countries international position. This is clear.
Beyond that, it is a fact that various arguments have been put forward, saying that we are not responding to Turkey as we should. It is the choice of not just this government, but of the previous governments, as well, to improve relations with Turkey, and this is because we believe that improved relations with Turkey, good neighbourly relations with Turkey, are to Greece’s benefit, first and foremost, but will also benefit Turkey and the stability of our region. So, that is why we are trying to improve our relations, and we are doing so within a specific framework.
First of all, there is the High-Level Cooperation Council. This is a new institutional framework created about a year ago and enabling the two governments to expand their cooperation into a broad range of sectors that have a direct impact on the day-to-day lives of citizens. This tool is now at the disposal of the two governments, enabling them to deepen their relations further.
Then we have the exploratory contacts, which have been under way for almost 10 years now. Their mandate – the framework within which they are being carried out – is clear: delimitation of the continental shelf between the two countries, from Evros to Kastelorizo. And this is absolutely clear. The current government has put great emphasis on, has invested in, the progress of these talks.
The Turkish side says the same thing. We have repeated statements from the Turkish Prime Minister and the Foreign Minister, saying that they want good neighbourly relations with Greece; that they want zero problems with Greece. What Greece is saying is that we will continue the exploratory contacts for the delimitation of the continental shelf, as we have done for the past 10 years, and that we want to see results.
We currently have a specific state of affairs. Turkey is holding elections on 12 June. These elections will produce a government from which we expect to see results – we expect to see progress. It is a fact that this would benefit bilateral relations greatly; it would lend fresh momentum to our cooperation and would be able to help towards normalizing our relations.
But at the same time, Greece is preparing for every other eventuality as well. It is carrying out its analyses and planning, and it is prepared to use all the tools at its disposal and it has never relinquished the rights and tools that are provided for by the Law of the Sea, that are provided for by international law and that it safeguards and defends at every opportunity.
As for Turkey’s conduct of violations, in every case, and regardless of what is written from time to time – and the headlines are often different from the content, or there is often no effort to crosscheck information, as we saw recently with an exercise, which required the reply from the Defence General Staff – in every case, Greece does what is necessary, both operationally and diplomatically, to defend our country’s positions, and there should be no doubt about that.
So, this is the framework within which we are talking to Turkey. We want good relations. But words are not enough. We are waiting to see specific actions.
L. Kalarrytis: Twelve years – from 1999 to today – is enough time for one to draw conclusions regarding a policy. Do you think that over these 12 years this policy of rapprochement with Turkey and the effort, by Greece, to improve relations has succeeded with Turkey? Has Turkey responded?
Mr. Delavekouras: This is a question we discussed last time, as well. But I will gladly answer again. Over the twelve years you referred to, Greece and turkey have achieved tangible, specific progress in many sectors.
They have succeeded, first of all, in breaking certain stereotypes that existed for the two countries in the past. They have succeeded in showing that they can work together, they have the ability to work together, and that this is mutually beneficial. When this process began, no one doubted that we were talking about a difficult process. There is a great distance between the two countries’ positions.
But Greece bases its positions on international law, which gives them strength. It bases its positions on the Law of the Sea, which sets down rules of customary law that must be implemented by all countries, and a Convention that has been ratified by 160 countries around the world. This gives Greece power and a voice in the efforts we are making with Turkey.
I’m not saying it isn’t difficult. I’m not saying that the violations Turkey carries out don’t create problems. First of all, they run the risk of an accident or even a crisis, and that is why Greece must be, and always is, ready to confront any situation.
On the other hand, however, it is a fact that right now the two countries can talk openly. I think the Greek Prime Minister’s speech in Erzurum is proof of the difference in the way the two countries express their positions, and beyond that, we really hope that we will be able to achieve progress as well. We really hope to reach the point of good relations with Turkey.
But it needs to be clear that this has to be accompanied by actions. Greece obviously won’t be satisfied with just words. Greece obviously doesn’t assess, doesn’t determine its policy based on wishes or statements from across the sea. We are waiting to see results.
So, our policy is very specific, very determined, with clear boundaries and frameworks, based always on the defence of national interests and the safeguarding of our rights. That is the framework within which we are talking, serving longstanding foreign policy goals that have been followed by all governments.
M. Pollatos: Mr. Spokesman, the Foreign Minister stated recently that Greece will extend its territorial waters. As he didn’t clarify, I wondered if you can clarify that for us. Will the territorial waters be extended to 12 nautical miles?
And a second question, as what you said about that difference was nice: the difference that often exists between an article’s title and its actual content. Thank you for that observation, because I think it concerns all of us – we’ll try to improve. Is Mr. Davutoglu’s stated policy of zero problems consistent with his view that the reality of the situation in the Aegean is different from that described in international treaties?
Mr. Delavekouras: Regarding your first question, the delimitation of territorial waters up to 12 nautical miles is Greece’s sovereign right, and as a sovereign state Greece decides when and how to exercise that right. Alone, based on its sovereignty.
Regarding your second question, the reality of the situation in the Aegean is very clear and is described in detail in international treaties. There is international law. As I said earlier, the Law of the Sea – which has been ratified by 160 countries – sets down rules of customary law; rules, that is, that are binding for all the members of the international community. There is a very clear framework, and Turkey needs to follow it. This needs to be clear.
Any other questions?
Thank you very much.