JOURNALIST: Were Mr. Mitsotakis’s visit to Washington and the talks with president Trump productive?
N. DENDIAS: The criterion for every visit, whether or not it is productive, has to do with what the objective is – what you expect to achieve. And in this case the Prime Minister’s objective was to explain Greece’s position and make it absolutely clear to President Trump and the American leadership. This was done in the clearest manner, and I must say that there was no disagreement with Greece’s positions. They were fully understood. And this is clear from a number of statements from Secretary of State Pompeo and the U.S. Vice President, Mr. Pence. And as you know, President Trump is very open. If he had heard something from the Greek side that he didn't agree with, he would have said so straight out and even on camera. This didn’t happen, either in public or in the private talks, which of course are always much more substantial. So I want to dispute the criticism that has been made of the Prime Minister’s trip, because it’s completely unjustified.
JOURNALIST: We even saw a cartoon with the prime minister eating popcorn while Trump gave an interview. Does that bother you?
N. DENDIAS: I understand the need for a certain portion of the news media and the opposition to belittle the visit or express criticism in this area. But there shouldn’t be knee-jerk opposition on these issues, and there wasn’t the slightest reason to criticise the Prime Minister. Mr. Mitsotakis did the job of the Prime Minister of Greece. He presented Greece’s position to the American leadership. And as I said earlier, they understood this position, which is extremely important. And this isn’t an isolated visit. It is part of the overall effort being made in the context of Greek foreign policy to deal with Turkish provocations as a whole.
JOURNALIST: Did the prime minister convey to the American leadership the Greek government’s decision to respond by any means necessary if Turkey crosses the red line?
N. DENDIAS: I assure you this was made very clear. Crystal clear! And in very few words, because that’s how you make these things understood. Of course, I also want to add that I don’t think Turkey will cross the very clear line we have drawn. But in any event, the Greek prime minister made it crystal clear to the American leadership and president Trump what we would do and what our constitutional duty is. We have made the same decision clear to all of the players, including Russia and the UN Secretary-General.
JOURNALIST: Does this clear line you’re talking about include the sending of Turkish peacekeepers, Turkish navy vessels?
N. DENDIAS: I don't want to go into detail about the probability of Turkey’s making moves I don’t think it will make. I don't think it is in Turkey’s interest to make moves that will create complete instability in the region. In any case, what has already happened – the signing of the two null and void memoranda – was very destabilising. I think it would be in Turkey’s interest not to continue down this road.
JOURNALIST: Do you have a roadmap for what will happen from here on in Greek-Turkey relations? Have you planned your moves for a further de-escalation?
N. DENDIAS: The whole framework of our actions, which is thoroughly planned, is governed by specific principles. First of all, Greece always maintains open channels of communication with Turkey on the bilateral level. The prime minister has said this, and I have said it repeatedly. The political consultations between the general secretaries of the two ministries were launched on Friday, in Ankara. I hope they go well.
JOURNALIST: Will the exploratory talks start subsequently?
N. DENDIAS: This will happen if the political consultations go well and if there is a framework of understanding. What is the framework of understanding? That we all have to act based on international law. The Prime Minister has been very clear about this. If we disagree on this, then there are international judicial organs that we can appeal to. But we cannot adopt a policy of gunboat diplomacy. We cannot accept that. So, legality and dialogue. This has to do with the bilateral framework with Turkey, and we hope for the best on this. I repeat: We want to have a good and thriving neighbour, a Turkey that respects human rights, wants to adopt the European way of life and the culture of the western world. A modern Turkey. That’s what we want. Regarding broader issues, Greece is talking with all of the countries in the region that have a similar outlook. We have bonds of brotherhood with Cyprus. We have friendly relations with Egypt. We are talking to the Gulf countries that respect our views – the Emirates, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait, among others – and I will be visiting Bahrain and Oman in the coming weeks, as well as Morocco this coming week. We will also be talking to Algeria and Tunisia. Greece is talking to all the countries in the region, all of the Mediterranean countries. Turkey is becoming progressively more isolated from a large number of countries. And we are also talking to Israel, with which we have close relations. We have talked with them countless times, and prime minister Netanyahu was here for the signing of the EastMed agreement. I will be visiting Lebanon soon. Understanding with Mediterranean and Gulf countries is a key part of our broader planning.
JOURNALIST: And our cooperation with France?
N. DENDIAS: I think this strategy is a necessary condition for exercising Greek foreign policy. And I really want to praise the political parties that understand this is how it has to be. Of course, we also have the European dimension, which is expressed on the EU level overall. We have the Council decisions. An extraordinary meeting of the EU Foreign Affairs Council convened in Brussels on Friday to discuss the Iran issue, and the Libya issue was also raised. There is also the framework of our bilateral relations within the EU. I think France’s presence at the 3+1 meeting, with Italy attending as an observer, is extremely important. France is the biggest military power in the EU. It has a permanent seat on the UN Security Council, and let’s not forget that it’s a nuclear power. So France’s presence in the Eastern Mediterranean as an actual guarantor of international law is very, very important. And this has to be attributed to Greek foreign policy. Because France talked mainly with Greece before taking all of these initiatives. Remember that it was our idea for the meeting to take place in Cairo, to emphasise the broader destabilisation caused by Turkey’s action in Libya, because this doesn’t concern just Greece – it concerns Egypt, Cyprus and the Eastern Mediterranean. And it is also important that the next meeting will take place in Crete. As you can understand, Crete wasn't chosen randomly, over Corfu for instance. We chose to hold it in Greece and in Crete for obvious reasons.
JOURNALIST: It seems from the communique adopted at the meeting in Cairo that the participating countries virtually adopted the Greek government’s views ...
N. DENDIAS: They may even surpass them ...
JOURNALIST: What’s the next step? What do we expect at the UN, where the two Turkey-Libya agreements have been submitted?
N. DENDIAS: There is a distinction there as well: That the Libyan House of Representatives explicitly voided the two memoranda, sending their decision to the Arab League. We’re not talking about non-ratification, as we were until now. The Libyan House of Representatives went a step further, explicitly voiding the memoranda. As a result, the two memoranda signed by the government in Tripoli lack even a formal element of legitimacy. Consequently, the UN has to consider the issue very seriously. But beyond that, on the level of applied policy, it is clear that these two texts are null and void and outside the framework of international law. There is no one in the world, apart from Turkey, who could claim that these texts are binding for the two countries and are political texts.
JOURNALIST: Your predecessors are even criticising your smile, and they recognise Turkey’s rights regarding its coastline. How do you respond to those who say, “let’s not be hogs,” arguing that the multilateral cooperation mechanisms with Israel, Egypt and other countries bother Turkey?
N. DENDIAS: I don’t comment on statements from my predecessors. Everyone has the right to express his opinion in the way he sees fit. Now, it’s good to smile in life. You know, the Greek people have been through difficult times. There’s no need to convey a climate of pessimism, which in any case doesn’t exist. The essence of the matter is: Greece isn't creating cooperation mechanisms against Turkey, and Greece doesn’t want to isolate Turkey. Greece doesn’t want to deprive Turkey of its legal rights based on international law. This is exactly why we are talking about international law. We don’t want to take anything from Turkey that really belongs to Turkey. But we don’t accept Turkey’s taking something that belongs to us. And if there are disagreements – not on matters of our sovereignty, as the Prime Minister has said – let’s talk about it. And if we can’t resolve things between ourselves, there are international judicial organs, within the familiar framework. What cannot be implemented is the law of gunboats. Turkey cannot unilaterally exercise imaginary rights. We don’t reserve the right to exercise imaginary rights. And nor do we allow Turkey to do so. It’s very simple.
JOURNALIST: If we come to an agreement with Turkey and apply to The Hague, the International Court, will it be for delimitation of the continental shelf or the EEZ?
N. DENDIAS: Historically, Greece accepts only one dispute with Turkey: The continental shelf dispute. Of course, over the continental shelf, and not coinciding with it completely, is the exclusive economic zone (EEZ). Turkey has its views, we have ours. That’s why we said we should discuss things. But I reiterate that, historically speaking, Greece recognises only one dispute with Turkey. We can’t constantly put issues on the table, creating “grey areas” on everything and, as a result, discussing everything. But in any event, Turkey should make its views clear to us. But Turkey needs to be aware that it doesn't have the right to exercise policy outside international law.
JOURNALIST: If there is such an urgent need for the fighter jets, why isn't fiscal space created to acquire them now rather than in 2024?
N. DENDIAS: The government’s first and main goal is the prosperity of the Greek people. This includes protecting them, of course. But the economy is a vital element. And the prime minister didn't talk about buying F-35s. He talked about participating in the F-35 programme, which is much more important economically because it means transfer of know-how and involvement of the Hellenic Aerospace Industry in the most advanced aircraft that exists right now and is for sale on the planet. So this is something much more complicated that we have to consider. We would of course be interested in it not just as part of our defence policy, but also as an element of economic policy. On the other hand, we don't use our armed forces to create problems in the region or in other countries. We use them only to safeguard the prosperity of the Greek people, the prosperity of Greek society – to defend our constitutional rights. Nothing more, nothing less. We are a serious country, a European country in a difficult region where we function as a stabilising factor.
JOURNALIST: How will we build better bridges with the U.S.? Will Deputy Assistant Secretary Palmer come to mediate with Turkey?
N. DENDIAS: If Mr. Palmer comes, he’ll be welcome. During the prime minister’s visit, we didn’t meet with just president Trump. The whole American leadership was there – those we wanted to see – including vice president Pence, secretary of state Pompeo and national security advisor O’Brien. I mention this in response to those who are describing the prime minister’s visit to the United States as “useless” or unsuccessful. Beyond that, we have a good agreement with the United States, the MDCA, which will be brought before Parliament in the coming days. I hope all of us vote for it, because it was discussed with all of us and almost no one disagreed with its usefulness, apart from KKE of course. The MDCA is an extension of the American footprint in Greece and it is a factor for safeguarding peace in the region. Again, this agreement isn’t aimed against any third party. This is a very important step. On the other hand, the American presence in Greece is ongoing. The Americans themselves have said there is a large American submarine in Souda. This is accurate, and as we speak there is another U.S. navy vessel in Greek territorial waters. The American presence in Greece is real, and the U.S. is active. And it is clear that this action works in favour of the region’s stability and deters anyone who is trying to destabilise the region, whoever they may be. It’s not directed against anyone in particular. Greece is in favour of stability and the United States is in favour of stability. And this is how they are acting in the Aegean, in the Eastern Mediterranean, in the wider region of our interest.
JOURNALIST: Can we conclude from what you’re saying that, if the Turks cross the Rubicon, we won’t be alone – we’ll have the U.S. and France at our side?
N. DENDIAS: I’m not going to name names. There’s no reason for me to do so. But I will say this: If necessary – and I hope it won’t be – we can take care of things on our own. But I also assure you we will not be alone. The main thing is for it not to be necessary and for everything to go well in our region.
January 12, 2020