JOURNALIST: Minister, welcome. Thank you for being with us.
G. GERAPETRITIS: It is a great pleasure.
JOURNALIST: Since we are at an economic conference, I would like to begin by addressing the issue of tariffs, and the so-called trade war, initiated by Donald Trump, along with the policy reversals, for lack of a more accurate term. I would like to ask you about the diplomatic consequences within the European Union, not about the economic aspects of the issue. During your talks with your counterparts, have you observed disagreements, differing strategies or even discord? In other words, have this trade war and the issue of tariffs become another field of internal conflict within the European Union?
G. GERAPETRITIS: First of all, it is particularly important to emphasize that tariffs are not good news. In a market which is accustomed to freedom and primarily aims to serve consumers, any trade barriers create a new reality and potentially inflation, rising interest rates, and broader disruption. On the other hand, I believe the European Union’s position is clear. After a brief initial period of uncertainty, I believe that the EU has now reached the conclusion that it is useful and beneficial to continue its cooperation with the United States and to try and find a way to mitigate any problem that may arise. To establish a modus vivendi, through which we can manage any issue that may come up, as regards our bilateral trade, instead of resorting to radical solutions, such as the imposition of tariffs. Of course, within the European Union, where by definition many and often conflicting interests exist, there are different views. However, it is crucial for Europe, especially regarding tariffs, to remain united, to speak with one voice, and to express itself through the institutions, thereby multiplying its negotiating power. A Europe that stands united is a much stronger Europe – in terms of negotiating strength.
JOURNALIST: Could Trump’s policy cause a new economic crisis for the European Union?
G. GERAPETRITIS: We are not at that point right now. I think we are currently in a phase of transition to a new model. The new U.S. Administration has immediately introduced some new standards in economic cooperation and international trade. Everyone is trying to find their footing. In my view, we are not yet at a stage where an economic crisis could be triggered. In any case, Greece and the European Union should be prepared. Greece has the important advantage of not being overexposed to the United States, while having a thriving economy and enjoying political stability. These are the essential prerequisites for us to be able to avoid any potential crisis. At the EU level, effective management is clearly important. I believe this also ties into a more macro-level approach for the EU, a trajectory toward strategic autonomy. Oftentimes, historical events can accelerate history itself. We saw how Russia’s war against Ukraine, the Russian aggression in Ukraine, urged most EU member states to diversify from Russian natural gas. In a similar situation, I would say that Europe will also be forced to adapt to the new circumstances. That is not necessarily a bad thing, as long as it is carried out in a planned, strategic way, aiming at Europe’s security and prosperity.
JOURNALIST: However, it seems that Europe is also adapting to the conditions of a war economy. If I’m not mistaken, the NATO Summit is scheduled for the end of June. In “To Vima tis Kyriakis” newspaper, we published a piece of information stating that, a few months ago, the U.S. Administration submitted a question to European capitals. It was more of a test, an exercise, asking them to imagine the future of NATO without the United States. Even if this is a most unlikely scenario, I would like to ask you if Athens, if we, have considered such a possibility.
G. GERAPETRITIS: First of all, let us look at the big picture. The big picture is that with the unprecedented developments in the broader geopolitical landscape, I believe every country should be prepared to effectively respond to any attack, whether conventional or hybrid. Therefore, we must adapt and be as well-prepared as possible. As for your question, the answer is quite clear: NATO remains the strongest defensive alliance, the largest transatlantic cooperation organization, and I believe it will remain exactly like that. I do not feel that there will be a fundamental change regarding the core principles of transatlantic cooperation. Of course, at this moment, we are in a transitional phase – even at NATO. Traditional burden-sharing within the transatlantic organization is being altered, since the over-dependence on the United States is gradually reduced. The burden is gradually and proportionally being borne by Europe. Europe will need to take on a greater share. This is primarily linked to addressing defense needs and strengthening Europe’s defense capabilities.
The commitment of all NATO countries to continue supporting, or even increasing, their investment in defense capabilities is crucial, in light of the upcoming NATO Summit in The Hague on June 24-25. I would like to emphasize that this is not necessarily negative. It means strengthening the defense autonomy of states. As you know, in Greece, we are already strongly committed to investing in our defense capabilities, in our military equipment. Similarly, there is a common understanding in Europe at the moment, that Europe’s collective defense must also be strengthened. The ReArm plan, which is currently being developed within the framework of the European Union, constitutes a new major tool towards achieving strategic autonomy. All these steps lead to one thing: the transformation, I believe, of an economic union, which was launched with the aim of removing barriers in inter-community trade, into a geopolitical union. The truth is that Europe cannot continue to have dependencies. In the coming decades, it must follow a more autonomous path. Because autonomy is ultimately a guarantee for its own security.
JOURNALIST: Does Türkiye have a place in this path toward European autonomy?
G. GERAPETRITIS: Türkiye is in any case a significant regional and international actor, with an independent defense industry. It is a partner in NATO and therefore our ally in the transatlantic alliance. It is also a candidate country for accession to the European Union. There are obligations stemming from all this. Respecting the rules of international law and the territorial integrity of allied states is Türkiye’s first and foremost obligation. Our position is very clear. In order for Türkiye to have any involvement in Europe’s defense industry or in the new defense structure currently developed within Europe, it must demonstrate in practice that it respects these rules. And it is obvious that as long as Türkiye continues to threaten Greece with war over issues related to the country's sovereignty and the rights derived from international law, this will remain a significant obstacle.
JOURNALIST: And while occupying half of Cyprus.
G. GERAPETRITIS: And, of course, while occupying Cyprus following the illegal invasion of 1974. At present, we are in a relatively better position than we were two years ago. The Greek government, in coordination with the Republic of Cyprus, has succeeded in bringing the Cyprus issue to the forefront as a major topic within the United Nations. The UN Secretary-General has personally taken on the issue and he has elevated it to the highest levels of priority within the United Nations agenda. We have had positive developments, with the informal discussions, both at the multilateral level in Geneva and at the bilateral level between the two leaders. And of course, the reappointment of Ms. Holguin as Personal Envoy of the Secretary-General. These are positive developments. However, we must face the reality. And the reality is that Türkiye is maintaining a position, which was confirmed in recent days, supporting the partition of the island and sovereign equality, which is not in line with the United Nations, with the Security Council Resolutions, and cannot be accepted under any circumstances.
JOURNALIST: So, Minister, the facts are, more or less as follows: Türkiye, at least that is our view, does not respect international rules. What is certain is that it has not recognized international law. Therefore, it does not have an obligation to comply with it, from a certain perspective. However, the very fact that we are discussing an independent European defense mechanism indicates that NATO is not what it used to be. And as for the European defense mechanism, we know that there is a debate about whether Türkiye could be a co-producer in the arms industry. There is an opinion that Türkiye joining the European mechanism would amount to a strategic defeat for Greece. What is your comment on that?
G. GERAPETRITIS: The answer is very clear. To the extent that Greece is currently at the heart of the European Union and has an exceptionally strong voice within NATO, with regional and international alliances that have multiplied the country’s diplomatic footprint, it is evident that the national interests will be appropriately promoted. I repeat, it is unthinkable for any country to be involved in any endeavor, when this does not simultaneously entail absolute respect for the territorial integrity and the independence of states. Threats in the modern world cannot be tolerated. We saw this in the case of Russia’s aggression. I believe it was the first time we had a war in the heart of Europe since World War II, but it was also the first time that the West spoke with one strong voice against the aggression. And this voice, I believe, must continue to be strong. Greece has always stood in favor of international law. I believe that, at this moment, we have every reason to stand firm against this situation. The truth is that Greece, which is strong diplomatically, has a thriving economy, and, of course, a rapidly developing national defense, can guarantee security, but it can also be at the center of decision-making.
You know, there aren’t many countries today that can have the power of a country like Greece, which may not be one of the largest in the world. However, its diplomatic footprint is far larger than its size. As an elected member of the UN Security Council, a co-shaper of international policy, and a key player in the international security architecture, at the heart of the European Union, in major organizations, with excellent relations with all of our neighbors, I believe Greece can voice its opinion and prevent, when necessary, actions that harm its national interests.
JOURNALIST: You had a dinner, which was also described as private, with Hakan Fidan, your counterpart, in the previous days. These reports, as you know, capture the imagination of journalists. You have not spoken about it. What did you discuss? Did you discuss difficult issues, since privacy allows for a more open discussion?
G. GERAPETRITIS: I feel that there are much more crucial issues to capture the imagination of journalists, rather than the informal dinner. As you know, I was in Istanbul on an unofficial visit. I had the opportunity to make a series of contacts with the Ecumenical Patriarch, with the Greek Diaspora, to personally visit foundations of the Greek minority, the historic Theological School of Halki and to meet with influential individuals. There was a meeting, as you said, an invitation to an informal dinner with the Minister of Foreign Affairs of Türkiye. In this discussion, as you understand, beyond anything else, current affairs were discussed, that is, issues related to international and regional issues, which, moreover, constitute common challenges for Greece and Türkiye. We had a discussion on Cyprus. I made it crystal-clear that Greece's long-standing position is that no fait accompli should be created, that could hamper any substantial progress. In the coming weeks, we will have the opportunity to discuss in an official format issues concerning our bilateral relations, the next High-Level Council, as well as the Political Dialogue and the Positive Agenda.
JOURNALIST: We also have economic relations with Türkiye. The Positive Agenda is moving ahead, even in difficult times. Mr. Chatzivasileiou will be in Istanbul. How is this progressing? We see large Turkish companies investing in Greece – and this is not very well known.
G. GERAPETRITIS: There is a significant increase in bilateral trade. The leaders of Greece and Türkiye set a very ambitious goal of doubling the volume of bilateral trade. We are making progress in that regard and I think that in the coming years economic cooperation between Greece and Türkiye will improve. Of course, the geopolitical and diplomatic stance of the two countries must be conducive to economic development. There are mutual investments between the two countries. There are also Greek investments, which are currently underway in Türkiye. The Positive Agenda has operated on two levels – both at the level of the economy, through bilateral investments, bilateral trade, and at the level of people-to-people diplomacy. You know, for me, it is extremely important that citizens of neighboring countries are able to come closer, to realize that what unites them is far more significant, and to foster a sense of familiarity, so that stereotypes can be dismantled, intolerance can be overcome and we can look towards the future with greater optimism. In the context of the Greek-Turkish dialogue, we have a dialogue that is completely structured, contrary to the rapprochement attempted between the two countries in the past. It is based on pillars, on timetables, on deliverables. In this context, we will have Mr. Chatzivasileiou’s visit to Istanbul. The next steps will be new rounds of the Political Dialogue and of the Positive Agenda. We had the Confidence Building Measures on military cooperation and understanding between the two countries. And of course, the High-Level Council.
JOURNALIST: When will it take place?
G. GERAPETRITIS: The High-Level Council will take place in the summer. We understand that at the moment the schedule of both leaders is very tight. We will be able to find the right time. We will also discuss it on the sidelines of the NATO Foreign Ministers’ meeting in Antalya mid-May, so that we will have the final date. What remains crucial in my view is to maintain activity in Greek-Turkish relations. You know, I have often wondered whether we should make major steps in Greek-Turkish relations. I have a deep conviction that what is most important is to move forward in small, steady steps, which can be absorbed by both the political life of the country and the societies themselves. It is important to consolidate the achievements we have attained in the two years that we have been trying to rebuild a good level of cooperation between the two countries, while also recognizing our fundamental differences on major issues. And I think that today we have consolidated as an achievement, above and beyond everything else, a dialogue, by virtue of which we can prevent crises. Open channels of communication also ensure peace in our region. And I think that this has yielded positive results. Airspace violations are extremely limited, which were commonplace in the past. Networks of traffickers are fought daily and the situation is under control by virtue of our coordination in migration issues. And at many other levels, which build a better relationship. And we know that we have our differences and I would be really naive to think that within two years, issues that have been plaguing us for fifty years will be resolved. And you know, the issues Ankara raises can be traced back decades. They weren’t raised for the first time these last two years.
JOURNALIST: There is an issue lately. It could be titled: "The Cable". This would be enough for us all to understand what it is about. We had a development yesterday, the meeting between the Cypriot and Israeli leaderships. There is an impression that we are now backing down from this energy project.
G. GERAPETRITIS: First of all, let's start from the basic premise. Greece over the last six years has transformed into an energy hub, both at a European and at a regional level. The projects that are currently underway, such as the Greece-Egypt energy interconnection, the Greece-Cyprus energy interconnection leading ultimately to Israel, the vertical axes that are being developed, the LNG terminals, the FSRU stations in Alexandroupolis and, above all, the change in Greece’s energy mix with the inclusion of renewable sources in a very large percentage, have substantially upgraded our country. As for the issue of the Greece-Cyprus electrical interconnection, I want to tell you that it is a project of common interest for the European Union. It is a project of great importance, especially for Cyprus, because it eliminates Cyprus' energy insecurity and it is a project that will be implemented. The cooperation between Israel and Cyprus for the second phase of the energy interconnection between Cyprus and Israel was planned from the very beginning. So, it is not something that changes the planning. Our belief is that interconnections in general, whether electrical, or communications and data interconnections, are extremely crucial. The project will continue and it will continue in the appropriate manner.
JOURNALIST: One last question about the relations between Greece and the United States. You were in Washington. Are we expecting a visit from your counterpart and when? And how are we progressing in our other collaborations in the region? I mean, the Egyptian President will be here tomorrow. We see a very close relationship with Israel, but also with the Arab world. I want you to map this out for us, but with a focus on Washington and how things are changing.
G. GERAPETRITIS: Our country has an excellent strategic relationship with the United States. I think, today, it is at the highest level it has ever been. It is a partnership that has developed over time. It goes beyond the classic bilateral relations based on bilateral trade, on economic cooperation. It has developed into a major defense cooperation. And I think that these relations will develop further. Of course, there will be mutual visits. I had the pleasure and honor to visit the State Department, as one of the first Ministers of Foreign Affairs to do so, and to have an excellent discussion with the Secretary of State, Marco Rubio. I had the opportunity to see him again on subsequent occasions. I think we have a direct communication. This will continue. At the same time, Greece, within the framework of its multilateral diplomacy, has an excellent relationship with the entire Arab world. Greece has traditionally strong ties with the Arab world. And at the same time, we have a strategic relationship with Israel. I think we have earned the respect of all international actors. And this is because Greece’s positions are based on principles and rules. Greece has an honest attitude and I think this is its added value. Especially for Egypt, which you mentioned, indeed, tomorrow a delegation of the Egyptian government under President Sisi will be in Athens for the High-Level Cooperation Council. We will have the opportunity to confirm our great strategic cooperation and to open new paths to further deepen it. For us, Egypt is a landmark country. And this not only because of the geographical proximity we have with Egypt and the great cooperation, which we have developed in recent years, resulting in our major bilateral agreement for the delimitation of our Exclusive Economic Zones. But primarily because we consider that Egypt constitutes a pillar of stability in the wider region. This is in the interest of Greece, but also in the interest of peace and prosperity in the entire region. For this reason, the strategic relationship we have with Egypt is at the highest level. Accordingly, all our trilateral arrangements with Cyprus and Jordan, Lebanon, Israel will be activated, and further enhanced in the near future. I want to emphasize the fact that Greece has developed a strategic relationship with countries that have great potential in the international arena, such as India. I have regular communication with the Indian Foreign Minister. We are jointly developing major actions, such as, for example, the IMEEC, i.e. the economic corridor linking India, the Middle East and Europe. Greece is everywhere, it is strong. It is expanding its diplomatic footprint.
JOURNALIST: And in the Balkans, Minister? I have heard criticism that we have almost abandoned the Balkans. And that Türkiye is a powerful actor there.
G. GERAPETRITIS: Quite the opposite is true. Türkiye comes up in every question I am asked, and it is understandable to some extent. The historical burdens of the past do not help. But I want to tell you the following. For us the Balkans are a point of reference. We will never abandon them. I myself am among those advocating for the constant acceleration of the accession process of the Western Balkans. I am personally involved in this issue and I am in constant contact, both with the Ministers of Foreign Affairs of the Western Balkans, and with friends of the Western Balkans, with whom we have also joined forces at a collective level to accelerate this process. You are aware that the Western Balkans are potentially a minefield for the broader peace in Europe. As actors with a very strong influence in the region, we will ensure that we decompress tensions and act as mediators so that we avoid any conflagrations. Greece is not determined by third parties. We will not determine our foreign policy based on what others do, even if they are considered to be "eternal enemies". We have earned the right to speak of the autonomy and self-reliance of Greece, which was never the case in the past. Greece is now in the strongest diplomatic position ever. Over time, its capital has grown. Right now, we can speak autonomously and be heard everywhere.
JOURNALIST: You know that we could have you here for many hours.
G. GERAPETRITIS: It would be my pleasure.
JOURNALIST: Our time is up. Thank you very much, Minister.
May 6, 2025