JOURNALIST: Mr. Kotzias, you are the first Greek foreign minister coming on a bilateral visit after eleven years and also…
N. KOTZIAS: Next time it will be only one year.
JOURNALIST: You also brought and agreed with confidence building measures with our Ministry. This is a big change a positive change in Greek foreign policy, how come?
N. KOTZIAS: I think for every problem there is a solution, so I think we have to create stability, security in the Balkans and we have to create friendship and cooperation between our two countries. We have some problems, we have to find ways for solutions, and to find good solutions, we need trust.
So I thought, as I became Minister in foreign affairs of Greece five months ago, it will be great to find ways to create this trust or – the other way to say it – confidence. So I thought, in the ‘90s I was doing the Confidence Building Measures, CBMs, with Turkey. And I thought, is it not a good idea to use this instrument to create this trust. So I saw Nikola Poposki in Budapest, in Riga and then in Antalya, three times, and we discussed it, then we created two lists and half of them were the same points.
And now our political directors are in touch and today we gave to the public the 11 first CBMs, Confidence Building Measures, and we will do other measures too. And is very important to build our relationship as a network, which will give us stability. This means networks on education, culture, economic and trade relations, justice and home affairs, so that we will create a better atmosphere between the two governments and the two countries, to find, I hope, more easily a way to give a solution to the so-called name problem
JOURNALIST: The main problem. What can be the next steps after those measures, you mentioned that there will be meetings on political level between two Ministers. Can we expect something more?
N. KOTZIAS: Yes, it’s very important. We discussed at lunch that we will find ways for cooperation on the question of immigration. I was discussing that five months ago in the European Union, and nobody was listening. I said to them, a new problem is coming to Europe: the problem of immigration. And maybe inside this immigration there will be some jihadists. And nobody thought that there was a real problem coming to Europe. Now we see it! You see that in your country, we see that in Greece, we had only in the last two years 300,000 illegal immigrants coming from Pakistan and Afghanistan, and I am not counting the Syrian immigrants. Now, running through your country to Serbia. So we have thought of finding cooperation forms between our police and the police from your country. Cooperation on the boarders, cooperation to fight terrorism, other ways to fight organized criminality, so those will be the first steps. Other steps are to make new cooperation agreements between Greek Universities and Universities of your countries, and then I will invite your Minister of Foreign Affairs, Nikola Poposki, to come after the summer to Athens, and we will continue the discussions we have already started.
JOURNALIST: You said today that you went to help the European Integration, how you do it?
N. KOTZIAS: We are the oldest European member country in the Balkans, we are one of the first members of the European Union. During our presidency in the ‘90s and the presidency in 2003, we opened the way for the Scandinavians in the ‘90s and for the Balkans in 2003 – the way of accession in the European Union.
So we are a country with long experience on technical and law questions. So we are thinking in the way of expertise to help your administration or to hold some educational seminars about European law, about technical questions, about the way the European Union is holding negotiations, to give our experience to your people, to your Administration, to your scientists.
JOURNALIST: But to get to the point, the country should first start accession negotiation process.
N. KOTZIAS: You need this expertise even today.
JOURNALIST: Of course! But we are waiting for six years, recommendations but not a date to start. Can we expect Greece to agree for the beginning of accession negotiation process.
N. KOTZIAS: We had a long discussion the day before yesterday in Luxembourg and we have made a paper and conclusion papers with six points. By the sixth one we are speaking about the perspective of your country in the European Union – a country which is a part of the new enlargement process. And its very interesting: We put the word “enlargement”, even as the whole European Union doesn’t like to have this word, because they have said two years ago that they will stop the enlargement.
So we have a positive step in the relations between the European Union and your country. But the most important is not what we are saying about accession. The most important question is, how is your country doing with the criteria of Copenhagen? The criteria of the rule of law is a criteria of the way your justice and your courts are working. The question of the relations between your communities inside your country and the rights they have to have, personal rights, freedom of expression. So that is a lot of criteria, as I am sure that you know – by the conclusions from yesterday, it was mentioned by all the countries of the European Union, not by us – that you have to make many reforms to go to your accession process. It doesn’t depend at the first levels from the name.
The second thing is, I think the time is here and our duty, with your government, to find a solution on the name question. We have to make a compromise and your government and your country has to compromise too. We have to find a formula which can be acceptable from all the communities in your country and the whole neighbourhood.
JOURNALIST: We are all aware that our leaders should reach a deal next week, so that they will make all those required reforms and to have an election next year in April and to keep the recommendation of course, to begin. Ivanov mentioned some formula, can it be our president Ivanov that you met him today, he had an idea that solving the name issue, maybe can be a last chapter in the negotiation process. What do you think….
N. KOTZIAS: That’s not the way to make a negotiation, because, you know, if you have done the whole work, and then somebody comes and says, “Ok, we have done everything, we have reached an agreement, but we cannot agree on the name.” That could be a bad story. The right way is to make an agreement today, to compromise today, that all parties participating in the talks on the name will use the rule of law, will use a culture of compromising, which is a very important culture inside the European Union, and we have to do it now, and not after a hundred years.
JOURNALIST: So the Greek position is the same …
N. KOTZIAS: We have some thoughts, which could be the name solution. When we are already in the situation to discuss about it, I think we will discuss it with the government from your country, and I hope that they will accept to make a just Compromise.
JOURNALIST: You sound very optimistic in every problem has a solution, but considering the political crisis here and the your economic crisis, what can we both expect on the main problem, of the name issue dispute?
N. KOTZIAS: I think that crisis, you know in ancient Greek language or in Chinese language, it means not only a problem, but a perspective, a possibility of solution. And even if the doctor says to the patient that he is in a deep health crisis, he means not only that he is in a crisis and is going to die, but that we have to find ways to stay alive and to become healthy. So ‘crisis’ has not only a negative meaning, but it has a positive meaning too. So I think that maybe, inside the crisis, being in deep problems, is a moment where we can rethink all our problems and find new ways and new ideas about this name.
JOURNALIST: You already have your new ideas of solving the…
N. KOTZIAS: We will make three negotiations. The one was about Confidence Building Measures. We have already done it. The second will be about the methodology of the name, we will find out. The third will be about the name. And I am very optimistic not because it is easy, but because he have to do it, we need to do it, both countries, the whole Balkans.
JOURNALIST: Building confidence means that there weren’t any confidence.
N. KOTZIAS: Building confidence doesn’t mean there is no confidence, because to build this kind of confidence you need trust. Building confidence means to find areas where there are much easier ways to find solutions, and through these solutions we get the feeling that we can go on the great question.
JOURNALIST: You often mention irredentism in your statements, does it mean any territorial claims by the governments
N. KOTZIAS: Not by governments! I have never discussed about governments. I always say that some people here in your country think, not all of them, but think that maybe not all Greeks like that this country exists. I say that I am very happy that this country exists. I like that this country exists, and we will help that it will continue to exist.
In the other way, some people in Greece are thinking that there are people in your country that have thoughts about the so-called “Great Macedonia”. We have to fight against it – we have to fight against extreme nationalism. So if somebody goes to Olympus, for example, with a flag in his hands which is the old flag from your country, which is not recognized as your country’s flag, we have to stop it. If somebody is creating maps where parts of Greece belong to your country, we have to stop it.
JOURNALIST: But the Constitution since 1992 added an amendment.
N. KOTZIAS: Not only the Constitution, but in the agreement we had in the 90’s between the two countries, in paragraphs 5 and 6 it says that such kinds of questions are not open. But, you know, there are people who are thinking other ways, and we have to stop them.
JOURNALIST:
Going back to the name issue, can we expect also negotiations on the highest level to reach the compromise?
N. KOTZIAS: We have to make all kinds of negotiations we need to find a solution.
June 25, 2015