M. POLLATOS: How can we avoid the trap Turkey is setting by carrying out surveys for almost two months now over the Greek continental shelf? And how will Greece react to Turkey’s provocations?
N. DENDIAS: We have made a conscious choice to act prudently, calmly and with resolve. In that direction, we are methodically building diplomatic support. At the European Council meeting in October, Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis stressed to our partners that a clear message should be sent: that Turkey must stop its violations of international legality. In the Council conclusions, there is clear reference to the potential for adopting sanctions if Turkey continues its unilateral actions and provocations. Turkey is now faced with the creation of a list of sanctions. At the same time, in letters I’ve sent, I have raised a number of issues related to our neighbouring country’s stance, from its violation of the customs union with the EU to matters of provision of arms by certain countries, and I have repeatedly underscored to my colleagues issues such as Ankara’s blackmailing of Europe through migration flows and the major issue of security due to the confirmed facilitation of transport of jihadists to Libya, Syria and Nagorno-Karabakh. I have also raised issues that have to do with values, such as the violation of human rights in our neighbouring country. Turkey needs to realise that the deterioration of its relations with Greece has a cost, literally and figuratively, but no benefit. In particular with regard to the December meeting of the European Council, it remains to be seen, in the coming weeks, whether the time provided for diplomacy will bear fruit. But so far, our neighbour’s conduct doesn’t leave much room for optimism that it will change its stance. In my opinion, Turkey should treat Greece as its potential best friend.
M. POLLATOS: Even if the ‘Oruc Reis’ stops its wanderings, what would be the point of the exploratory talks on the delimitation of maritime zones if the Turks argue that the region they are surveying is their own continental shelf?
N. DENDIAS: The framework of the exploratory talks is specific and strictly defined. It concerns exclusively the issue of the delimitation of maritime zones in the Aegean and the Eastern Mediterranean. However, Turkey’s recent moves show that, for the time being, it does not want constructive dialogue under the predetermined rules and framework. Rather than proposing a specific date for resumption of the exploratory talks, it is choosing to create a climate that renders these talks impossible. In any case, as long as Turkey’s illegal activities continue in the Aegean and the Eastern Mediterranean, a constructive dialogue cannot be launched. We are calling on Turkey to stop its provocative actions and stop using delay tactics.
M. POLLATOS: Why is the extension of Greek territorial waters in the Ionian Sea being delayed?
N. DENDIAS: On 26 August, the prime minister announced, in Parliament, the government’s decision to extend territorial waters from 6 to 12 nautical miles in the Ionian. But this must be preceded by the closing of bays and drawing straight baselines. The relevant Presidential Decrees have been prepared and have already been submitted to the Council of State. The next step will be the extension of territorial waters in the Ionian, as determined by the Constitution. The implementation of this government decision shows, once again, our country’s adherence to the rules of International Law and, more specifically, the International Law of the Sea, which underscores the inalienable right to unilateral extension of our territorial waters to 12 nautical miles.
M. POLLATOS: Why was the agreement with Albania to refer the delimitation of maritime zones to The Hague a success? What if the International Court doesn’t rule 100% in favour of Greece’s positions? Might The Hague be a way to reach a compromise that the Greek people couldn’t otherwise accept?
N. DENDIAS: We agreed with Albania to proceed to the joint submission of the matter of delimitation of maritime zones to the International Court in The Hague so that this long-pending issue can be resolved based on the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea. This agreement is, by definition, a very important joint success, given that our country and Albania are advocating for the resolution of bilateral disputes based solely on International Law and dialogue. If dialogue doesn’t lead to an agreement, then disputes must be resolved through international arbitration. In the space of one year, Greece succeeded in concluding two agreements on the delimitation of maritime zones – first with Italy, and then with Egypt. In the case of Albania, the agreement to refer the dispute to the International Court in The Hague – the first time Greece and a neighbouring country have agreed to this process – creates a very important precedent for the wider region and sends a clear message to Turkey. Allow me to underscore that the agreement reached two weeks ago in Tirana has the full support of the political forces in Albania – the full support of the government and the opposition. Allow me to also stress that the special agreement referring the dispute to The Hague will be submitted after the extension of our country’s territorial waters in the Ionian to 12 nautical miles. All of this is happening with the full agreement of the Albanian side, which deserves recognition for its respect for International Law.
M. POLLATOS: Are you planning partial extension of Greek territorial waters to 12 nautical miles in the maritime area south of Crete, and when?
N. DENDIAS: Greece retains the inalienable right to unilateral extension of its territorial waters from 6 to 12 nautical miles, based on the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea. The decision to extend in the Ionian has already been made, and at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs we are elaborating the next steps in that process. It is clear that the same exclusive right we have as a coastal state also exists in all the other regions of the country and will be exercised when deemed advisable, based on our overall strategic planning.
M. POLLATOS: Do you think the government and Greek society run the risk of being inured to Turkey’s provocations? Are we becoming accustomed and indifferent to Erdogan’s aggressiveness?
N. DENDIAS: It is a fact that we are facing Turkish provocations of unprecedented duration and diffusion. The list is long. Beyond the exploitation of the migration issue, we are seeing constant violations of airspace, an unprecedented number of flights over Greek territory, survey vessels in areas overlapping the Greek continental shelf, and so on. Our country responds to those challenges immediately. For every one of Turkey’s illegal actions, we make strict demarches and, at the same time, notify our partners and the international organizations, including the EU, the UN and NATO. We leave no Turkish challenge unanswered, and we will never leave one unanswered the future. But we don’t simply react. We are taking initiatives, creating networks of relations with other countries that are also being hurt by Turkish expansionism. We have started a campaign to debunk Turkey’s image as a western-oriented partner. We are projecting to everyone the real image of Turkey today. A country with neo-Ottoman inclinations. A country that wants to impose its will on the region. And, at the same time, a country that supports extremist Islamist organizations. But we respond prudently to Turkey’s provocations. We aren’t falling into the trap Turkey is setting for us. We don’t want militarisation of the confrontation nor do we want to be the ones to cause a sharp increase in tensions. However, this should not be interpreted as tolerance. We will always react, in proportion to each challenge. What we want is a different Turkey. A Turkey that respects the principles of peaceful coexistence between neighbouring states and has a renewed European perspective. We have no disagreement with Turkish society. Our disagreement concerns the specific policy being exercised, and I hope it finally changes. If this changes and is accompanied by a new effort to resolve the Cyprus problem, we can turn a new page in Greek-Turkish relations, provided there is the necessary political will in Ankara.
M. POLLATOS: The public are confused as to the government’s red line. Is it the 12 nautical miles? How do you respond to those who say it is a success that the Oruc Reis and the navy vessels accompanying it have not entered the zone of 6 nautical miles around Greek islands?
N. DENDIAS: Our country’s stance has been expressed repeatedly and requires no interpretation. We have made it equally clear that it is our intention to defend our national sovereignty and our national rights. We will tolerate no such attempt. No faits accomplish. And Turkey is well aware of this.
M. POLLATOS: Do you have any explanation for the impunity the Erdogan regime is enjoying from the EU and powerful countries such as the U.S. and Russia?
N. DENDIAS: First of all, let me say that Turkey’s image in the EU is changing. And it is changing fast. This is due to Turkey’s actions as well as our own. It has been made clear to our European partners that the Turkish threat is not a Greek-Turkish issue. It is an ongoing and emerging threat to Europe as a whole and to the ideas Europe represents. Turkey is destabilising the whole region, from the Caucasus to Libya, through the Aegean, the Eastern Mediterranean, Cyprus, Syria and even Egypt, where, through its open support for the Muslim Brotherhood, it is opposing President Sisi. It is promoting divisive rhetoric and moving towards becoming a mouthpiece for Islamic extremism in Europe and the Middle East.
M. POLLATOS: What is your comment on the outcome of the U.S. elections? Regardless of the result, should Washington impose sanctions on Ankara for the S-400s?
N. DENDIAS: Regardless of whether the vote counting has been completed, it is certain that we will work hard with the U.S. government to further deepen the already exceptional level of our bilateral relations. With regard to the S-400s, as you know, the U.S. has suspended delivery of the F-35, while calls for sanctions are increasing in Congress.
M. POLLATOS: In spite of the deadly earthquake in Samos and Izmir, this time diplomacy didn't pan out. Can a positive attitude stop those who dream of another Manzikert?
N. DENDIAS: A positive attitude is a necessary condition for mitigating the tensions. But it isn't enough on its own. It also has to come from both sides and be in good faith. Turkey’s actions, and specifically the issuing of a new illegal NAVTEX reserving areas over the Greek continental shelf for seismic surveys just one day after the conversation between Kyriakos Mitsotakis and the Turkish president, as well as my conversation with my Turkish counterpart, unfortunately doesn’t leave much room for optimism.
M. POLLATOS: Are the Germans moving towards an arms embargo or halting construction of the six Type 214 submarines? Is Berlin indifferent to overarming our neighbour? And how can the Germans be considered honest mediators?
N. DENDIAS: One of the main issues I raised with everyone I spoke to in Berlin a few days ago, starting with the Federal President, Frank-Walter Steinmeier, was precisely the issue of Germany’s delivery of the T-214 submarines to Turkey. I repeatedly stressed that this would change the balance of power in the region, and I underscored that it is not in Germany’s interest to arm a country with revisionist intentions with advanced weapons systems – a country that might use these weapons to threaten EU member states and, in the case of our country, a NATO ally. I didn’t expect an immediate result from these talks. But I returned satisfied because the arguments I set out for my German interlocutors were accepted with understanding and created strong concern. In fact, some of the officials I talked to voiced open support for the immediate imposition of an arms embargo on Turkey and underscored that they will make every effort for this embargo to be imposed. This is an ongoing, long-term effort.
November 8, 2020