JOURNALIST: We will now be talking to the Minister of Foreign Affairs, Nikos Dendias, by telephone, and we thank him very much for being with us. Good morning, Minister.
N. DENDIAS: Good morning, and a good Sunday to your viewers.
JOURNALIST: Minister, the first question, of course, has to do with how far Turkey’s provocations will go. In other words, the issue of the Turkey-Libya Memorandum, which essentially leaves out Greek islands. And the second question, which came in a short while ago, was a response from the Turkish Ministry of Foreign Affairs – what I would call a provocative statement: Don’t forget you were “driven into the Aegean,” calling our tone and claims regarding the Pontians baseless and slanderous.
N. DENDIAS: I’ll start with the first and then respond to the second, regarding last night’s statement. First of all, what Turkey did was more than provocative. It is completely devoid of content. The agreement between Turkey and Libya on the characterization and delimitation of Exclusive Economic Zones is devoid of any serious content, simply because Turkey and Libya have no point where their Exclusive Economic Zones being described come into contact. Turkey did this to exert pressure on Greece, and I repeat that it is devoid of content. Moreover, the fact of its being devoid of content is stated by the document from the President of the Libyan House of Representative that has already been sent to the UN. The term “null” is used in the Libyan text, the text from the body responsible for ratifying this agreement, which it will not ratify, of course. And the President of the Libyan House of Representatives will be in Athens this week, at the invitation of the President of the Hellenic Parliament, Mr. Tassoulas.
JOURNALIST: If I may, the issue is what reactions we will see from the Greek side. We’ve seen you taking initiatives, of course – and how Greece is going to escalate its reaction.
N. DENDIAS: We knew this move was coming from Turkey. Starting in July, we took a number of initiatives to discourage this move. Among these was my meeting with the Libyan Minister of Foreign Affairs, Mr. Siala, who, by the way, signed this agreement. The Prime Minister informed the Italian Prime Minister, Mr. Conte, during his recent visit to Rome. In spite of this, the government in Tripoli, under pressure from Turkey, obviously due to the recent advances of General Haftar’s forces, signed this document.
Our country will prepare a relevant Note that will be delivered to the UN and will take all of the measures in the framework of international law and the Law of the Sea, showing that this agreement is totally devoid of content.
JOURNALIST: Minister, Turkey is putting a lot of issues on the table. We have the Cyprus issue, now there is the Memorandum with Libya; theoretically, it is putting ten issues on the table. What is Turkey’s ultimate goal? What is the central issue, in your opinion?
N. DENDIAS: I’ll say this: Turkey’s goal often eludes us, because in theory the aim of Turkish foreign policy, which was stated with much fanfare by the academic and former Minister of Foreign Affairs of Turkey, Mr. Davutoglu, was “zero problems on our borders.” Through the policy it is implementing, Turkey has managed to have problems on all of its borders. Turkey doesn't have a single neighbour with whom it does not have problems. Consequently, what I can do is – in accordance with the instructions of the Prime Minister and, mainly, the dictates of the Constitution – defend the country’s interests, and from there on Turkey can find its own priorities. The thinking we are expressing sincerely to our Turkish interlocutors is that arbitrary actions outside of international law do not help Turkey. You will have observed that, of late, even Turkey has been forced to add a reference to international law in every statement of its views. The old bluster is still there, but now Turkey – at least on the level of its claims – has been forced to invoke international law.
JOURNALIST: Minister, what is the Greek side thinking of doing regarding those who say that “Greece should delimit its EEZ with Egypt, or raise this issue”?
N. DENDIAS: First of all, allow me to say that you already know – you are posing a rhetorical question – that the country’s next foreign policy move is not announced on television. Greece is already in discussions with Egypt. There were ten rounds of talks under the previous government. I and my Egyptian colleague – who came to Athens – have agreed on a tight timeframe. We have met three times recently, once in Athens and twice in Egypt, to conclude on the points of an agreement on the Greek and Egyptian Exclusive Economic Zones. Beyond that, I repeat that we will do whatever is necessary, calmly and seriously.
JOURNALIST: Is what is being said true: that you have messages from the European Union and from allies in general to move ahead to the declaration of an EEZ and we will have diplomatic support from everywhere?
N. DENDIAS: In general, I won’t go into specifics, I must say that the European Union, through Josep Borrell, issued a statement you are aware of, which is completely in line with international law. On Tuesday morning, I was his first visitor. He had just taken up his duties, and he nevertheless reacted immediately and took a position in the name of the European Union. The United States, Russia, Israel and Egypt have also taken a stance in this direction. Obviously, Greece has the full support of its allies, and not just its allies, on this issue. This alone makes Turkey’s misstep clear.
JOURNALIST: Regarding the new provocative statement from the Turkish Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Minister, which says that “the Greek leadership” cannot forget that Greece was “driven into the Aegean during the Turkish War of Independence” and must look at “the articles of the Lausanne Peace Treaty which sentenced Greece to pay compensation” to the Turks, and so on. We’d like an answer on that.
N. DENDIAS: A response will be issued by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, but I must tell you this: I have the sense that Turkey is trying to draw us into an escalation of statements and tensions. This sort of thing usually has to do with priorities on Turkey’s domestic political agenda. We have no reason to follow along with Turkey on this or play Turkey’s game – or become involuntary boosters of the popularity of President Erdogan and his government within Turkey. Greece will respond seriously on the issues. Now, if Turkey wants us to have disagreements on issues that concern the wars of 1912-1922, the war of Greek independence or the sacking of Constantinople, I think we can do that in the context of historical discussions, and not in the context of exercising policy.
JOURNALIST: You have said, Minister, that “if needed, apart from an olive branch, Greece is also holding a sword.”
N. DENDIAS: I was implying that the country has armed forces. I made this statement when I took up my duties as Minister of Defence, and I continue to repeat it. Greece is a peaceful country. It pursues friendly relations with all of its neighbours, including Turkey. That is our priority. We don't believe in resolving disputes through violence, and we don’t believe in gunboat diplomacy. But this doesn't mean Greece doesn’t have the capabilities and the will to defend its national territory and national space. Greece is a European country, a country that respects international law, a country that is not drawn into others’ games. It is a country with great self-confidence derived from its emergence from the worst economic crisis in its history – or at least one of the worst. Greece can maintain its composure because it is capable of defending itself and its rights.
JOURNALIST: Minister, there are front-page articles about even having recourse to The Hague. Cyprus has already done it. Cyprus will apply.
JOURNALIST: As we’re talking about legality and international law.
N. DENDIAS: I remind you that Greece made an application to the ICJ in the mid-1970s –1975-1976, if I remember correctly – and at that time Turkey didn't dare appear in The Hague, so the application was unsuccessful. At that time, of course, the issue was the Aegean and not the rest of the maritime area of the eastern Mediterranean. It was Turkey that did not dare to appear in The Hague, with the result that the Court declared itself without jurisdiction. Because Turkey, not having signed the then Convention on the Law of the Sea, or the special agreement at the time, the Court found it did not have jurisdiction. Greece is not afraid of international judicial bodies, because Greece has well-grounded and substantiated positions. Nor is Greece trying to exclude Turkey or deprive Turkey of its legal rights based on international law. Greece is reacting to Turkey’s arbitrary claims – that’s where our difference lies. Our difference is with Turkey’s provocations. Our difference is with Turkey’s effort to capitalise on its capabilities. Greece is a country that respects international law and would like to have excellent relations with Turkey. Eleftherios Venizelos and Kemal Ataturk succeeded in creating a bridge of relations and relations of friendship and cooperation just a few years after the decade-long war from 1912 to 1922. What stands in the way of Greece and Turkey having good relations now – close relations, relations of cooperation, good neighbourly relations? But Turkey is not helping in that direction.
JOURNALIST: Minister, do you think these Turkish provocations and the tension that exists might also exacerbate the refugee/migration issue, which, according to the information we have, the Prime Minister raised in his talks with Erdogan?
N. DENDIAS: I assure you that the Prime Minister raised the issue, and he was absolutely right to do so. Of course, to be clear, it isn’t a Greek-Turkish issue. But because Greece is a country of first reception, it is right for us to raise this issue in the context of our discussions with Turkey. On this matter, too, we are asking Turkey to comply with the law. We cannot believe that all these thousands of people – over 55,000 in 2019 – have entered Greece while Turkey, a country with a very large army, with a huge force guarding the country, with all of these capabilities, could not stop these people from illegally entering boats, risking their lives to try to come to Europe and, of course, to Greece, because Greece is the first country in Europe. It is right to raise this issue with Turkey in every meeting. By the same token, however, I must say that Greece recognises and understands that Turkey is hosting over 3.5 million people, mainly due to the war in Syria, and that Greece has always supported providing Turkey with financial assistance – but assistance for these unfortunate people, not for the Turkish state.
JOURNALIST: Right. Minister, thank you very much for being with us.
N. DENDIAS: Thank you very much.
December 8, 2019