JOURNALIST: Let’s go directly to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and to Nikos Dendias. Good morning, Minister.
N. DENDIAS: Good morning, Mr. Pretenteris, good morning to your listeners.
JOURNALIST: You’ve been caught in the global storm, with everything that's happened in the past 24 hours, and I’d like your interpretation, your analysis and your explanations of what’s happening. Let’s start with the stance of the United States. What is our assessment?
N. DENDIAS: Obviously, global public opinion has been taken by surprise by the President’s stance on the immediate withdrawal of the American forces from Syria and from the border with Turkey.
JOURNALIST: What does immediate really mean? Because they were saying something else yesterday, that some soldiers might stay – I honestly don’t understand.
N. DENDIAS: Mr. Pretenteris, we and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs don’t know how to solve enigmas. That’s a completely different area.
JOURNALIST: Right.
N. DENDIAS: We monitor the positions of our allies, our partners and other countries, and, accordingly, we formulate Greek foreign policy based on our interests. As we were in Egypt with the Prime Minister, you can understand that, with my Egyptian colleague, I tried to read the situation in the region. Beyond that, we are monitoring developments.
JOURNALIST: What did the Egyptians have to say about this?
N. DENDIAS: I can’t say they were happy.
JOURNALIST: I see that. No one is happy. Who is happy? Apart from Erdogan, no one.
N. DENDIAS: We are striving for non-instability in the region. We want the region to be stable, we want it to be secure, we want it to move within the framework of international law. Our outlook is based on the principle of the territorial integrity of states. Anything that disrupts this concerns us, and we always express our concerns. The issue doesn't immediately concern Greece, but it is an issue that is on our geographical horizon. In any case, we have said that the Mitsotakis government will re-assert Greece’s presence in international fora. The time of Greece’s absence, due to the crisis, is past. We emerged from the crisis and we must return to the international stage. Consequently, we have a position on all issues, to varying degrees, of course, depending on Greece’s interests and influence.
JOURNALIST: Three days ago, we had Mr. Pompeo here – the U.S. Secretary of State.
N. DENDIAS: And he was here for three days.
JOURNALIST: Did he suggest to you that something like this would happen?
N. DENDIAS: Mr. Pompeo analysed this possibility – I won’t hide that from you. But his analysis was that, in the end, this wasn’t in Turkey’s interest. Because Turkey will be operating – if it tries something like this – under the Russian air force, because the United States will have left. And with the fear that the Kurdish element might join the government of Damascus, and Turkey will be facing extreme problems on the ground. This was the analysis of the U.S. Secretary of State.
JOURNALIST: Right. Regarding Erdogan, is there the sense that we are dealing with what is now an unpredictable actor in the region or a predictable actor pursuing something?
N. DENDIAS: In part. I think that he himself, as a tactic, projects unpredictability, believing that this makes it more difficult for his interlocutors to hold a stance. We, Mr Pretenteris, speak simply and frankly and we try to be predictable rather than unpredictable in our foreign policy. We want everyone to know where we stand, what we are pursuing, what our interests are. If you want me to use a time-worn but appropriate term, we want people to know what our red lines are. We speak very clearly. We explain what chessboard we are playing on. We play on the chessboard of international law. We don’t let the chessboard shift to the level of 19th century gunboat diplomacy. That is complete nonsense. Complete nonsense, really! Any country that does that is making a grave error and will pay for it at some point in time. We want to be serious and predictable players in the region. But players in the region. We don’t want to be absent from anything. We’ll have a presence everywhere.
JOURNALIST: There’s movement on the Cyprus issue, I understand. You went there on an urgent visit, if I’m not mistaken.
N. DENDIAS: Let’s not kid ourselves. Cyprus is another state. We respect it. But we are also family.
N. DENDIAS: So the “urgent” ...
JOURNALIST: Not urgent, quick.
N. DENDIAS: If you visit a relative, it doesn’t mean something is up.
JOURNALIST: All right. So, you went to Cyprus. How did they describe this movement?
N. DENDIAS: There is movement on many levels. First of all, there is an effort by Turkey – also mistaken, in my opinion, and provocative – to dispute the sovereignty and sovereign rights of the Republic of Cyprus. But we have to deal with this.
So the question is: How do we deal with it? What is the best method? What do we do in the various fora, first and foremost the European Union, our wider family? And second, we are trying, as always, to take another look at the Cyprus problem to see if we can do something.
On this we have the good offices of the UN Secretary General. Greece has longstanding views, Cyprus has views. Obviously, Cyprus’s views on the issue are the dominant ones, but we also have our view. We are trying to help. But we have to discuss all of this.
JOURNALIST: Are there any developments toward a broader trilateral or five-sided understanding? We’re hearing this constantly, but we don’t see it.
N. DENDIAS: The Secretary General is very active, to his credit. We saw Mrs. Lute in the region. To be honest, I can’t say that Turkey is helping very much in this direction with everything it is getting up to, because this creates a certain climate. You can’t have havoc all around you and pretend that, on this specific issue, you are trying and you are positive and available to discuss it. But in any event, because we keep our composure – it’s hard to surprise us – I think we are making an effort with Cyprus to find a solution. President Anastasiades and my colleague, now my friend, Nikos Christodoulides, have a very serious and measured effort. We’ll see where it leads.
JOURNALIST: Right. On the Aegean issue, if I may, there is obviously an increase in refugee flows, and this is part of Erdogan’s game. It’s not a coincidence, I assume.
N. DENDIAS: I’ll tell you: even though Turkey often tries to convince us that it is the result of factors beyond its control, allow me to reserve a little doubt on this. Especially when they sometimes forget themselves. Because, you know, when you are a little more open than your policy allows for ... remember, on the one hand President Erdogan is telling us it’s like this, but then he also comes out and says, “what if I open the tap?”.
If you call people a “flow”, you transform them in your mind’s eye to a flow of water, belittling them. Because we are talking about human beings. But on the other hand, you tell us clearly what you are doing. We have a clear position on this, too: Turkey really is bearing a burden. Of course, other countries are too, and they aren’t doing things like this. Take Egypt, for example, which has 5 million refugees.
Turkey deserves our assistance. Not Turkey as Turkey – these people who are in Turkey deserve our assistance. Just so we understand what we’re talking about. The money provided by the European Union isn't money for Turkey. It is money for these people. On this, Greece agrees that these people have to be helped. But we don't agree with Turkey’s trying to blackmail the European Union with the migration issue.
The Mitsotakis government’s policy is to create a mechanism that will give Greece absolute control over its borders, with absolute respect – on this we are adamant – for international law and the treaties the country has signed.
But we won’t let Turkey play its games to our detriment. That can’t happen.
JOURNALIST: Now I want to go back to the second question I asked you. We have an unpredictable actor in Erdogan – we more or less agree on this – who either intimidates or behaves provocatively, and on the other hand, we have a superpower, the United States, that says one thing one day and another the next. Pompeo came here and said the U.S. is on our side, and if the Turks cross the line, the U.S. will come down hard on them.
N. DENDIAS: Just so we understand, this was directed at our side. It doesn’t cover whatever has to do with Syria, and we didn't ask for that.
JOURNALIST: Yes, but a superpower that doesn’t have a clear line and doesn't keep its promises to one side – there’s the fear it won’t keep its other promises either. It’s not just the one case.
N. DENDIAS: On the bilateral level – that’s what I’m talking about now – the U.S. administration hasn’t done anything that would cause us to doubt what was said – and what was said triumphantly, at that. At no other point since 1974 has a U.S. Secretary of State referred to Turkey. Much less a U.S. Secretary of State who came to Athens, signed an agreement and – Mr. Pretenteris – didn't go to Ankara. He didn’t go.
JOURNALIST: Yes, you’re right to point that out.
N. DENDIAS: Plain speaking. To our ears here in Athens, from the United States, and from the U.S. administration via the Secretary of State, Mr. Pompeo, clear and frank words were spoken. And to the best of my knowledge, which, if I may, everyone understands, I have no reason to doubt that these words spoken to us will be honoured. But I don’t know what the U.S. government, the U.S. President has in mind regarding the Kurds, the Syrians, the Syrian opposition.
[…]
JOURNALIST: Right. We had the Minister of Foreign Affairs, Nikos Dendias, with us. Thank you very much, Minister.
N. DENDIAS: Thank you.
JOURNALIST: Have a good day.
N. DENDIAS: Have a good day.
October 9, 2019