M. ZACHAREA: This is a crucial day, following your trip to the United States, but also because you returned today at noon, as I’m told, so you must be pretty tired.
N. DENDIAS: No, I am not, Ms Zacharea, thank you for this opportunity. I am particularly happy, as it has been an extremely successful visit. It was really an unprecedented experience for us. This is why I don’t feel tired.
M. ZACHAREA: I will start with the news report broadcast previously and ask for your first comment, your first reaction regarding the Turks. They seem to be seriously frustrated with this visit.
N. DENDIAS: I have to say that Turkey never fails to puzzle me, as it sometimes reacts in a way that I do not understand. What did Greece do? What did the Prime Minister do? He did his job, as the Prime Minister of Greece. This visit was not anti-Turkish in character. He defended the Greek interests; he explained the Greek positions and he outlined the problems in the region. What Turkey should do for its part, perhaps, is to have convincing arguments to present to the superpower and the international community. The fact that it appears to be frustrated demonstrates precisely the lack of arguments.
M. ZACHAREA: We know you had talks with your US counterpart, A. Blinken. You presented the full range of Turkish claims. I would like you to tell us what the US response was and of course what the content of your discussion on the Western Balkans was.
N. DENDIAS: I have become well acquainted with Mr. Blinken. I had the opportunity to show him maybe more maps than those shown in the White House. Because an issue has arisen lately, the issue of overflights, which is extremely disturbing. It is not possible for two allies to have such problems between them, at the sole responsibility of one of them, namely of Turkey, at a time when NATO is facing an external threat and an international crisis. So, this needs to be explained to the US side so that there is a clear understanding of the situation on the ground.
Beyond that, the whole discussion did not have to do with Turkey only, as you rightly said. There is a number of challenges in the region, the Western Balkans are one of them, Libya is another, our wider region, the Eastern Mediterranean, the possibilities for cooperation, the ‘3+1’ format, the situation in the Arab world, the opportunities for cooperation with the Arab world and beyond that with India, with Egypt; all these were issues also discussed with A. Blinken.
M. ZACHAREA: You also met with Mr. Kerry. He is the US Special Presidential Envoy for Climate. You talked about the seas as well. One might wonder, where does the climate fit in a discussion with the Minister of Foreign Affairs? However, there is an interesting element here, because it is important if our seas were included in the Natura 2000 network, and I would like you to explain this for our viewers to understand.
N. DENDIAS: First of all, Mr. Kerry is an important figure. He is a former Secretary of State, a former presidential candidate, he comes from a family of Philhellenes, he has been awarded the Lord Byron Prize for Philhellenism, and he is an exceptionally important man on the US political stage. For this alone it is worthwhile to meet him.
In this case, however, the meeting was held with a more practical aim. Greece is a country tied to the sea and is the country that has the largest commercial fleet on the planet. So, what we are planning with the US side is an initiative on the seas. And without having to announce anything right now - we will do so together with the US side in June - I assure you that the meeting had a much more practical aim than a general overview of issues.
M. ZACHAREA: Is it an initiative which will shield the Aegean?
N. DENDIAS: It concerns both Greek interests and the protection of the environment worldwide.
M. ZACHAREA: We were not present there, as you were, but we saw that the Prime Minister was cordially received. We saw a particularly warm response and his speech at Congress won very positive comments. A reasonable question is whether all this will be followed up when it comes to our national interests. Let me put it quite simply: if overflights continue, if there is, perish the thought, a major incident in the Aegean at some point in the future, can we hope for a strong reaction and assistance from the part of the US?
N. DENDIAS: First of all, Ms. Zacharea, you are quite an experienced journalist and surely you can recall past visits of Greek Prime Ministers to Washington. I have to say that the cordiality which prevailed during this visit is unprecedented. The fact that for the first time a Greek Prime Minister was given the opportunity - there is only one case in our history, that of King George II during the war and not…
M. ZACHAREA: Under extraordinary conditions back then.
N. DENDIAS: And he did not address a joint meeting of the Congress. The way President Biden addressed the Prime Minister, the words of the First Lady at the reception in the evening at the White House, all these were unprecedented for Greece. And these are the indications of a relationship that has been built step by step in all the preceding years.
Beyond that, these alone indicate a certain climate which suggests the US position on the broader problems of our region.
We do not expect the US to become the enemy of Turkey, nor do we expect them to expel Turkey from NATO. We expect the US to have a clear position on the issues of International Law and the International Law of the Sea. And, if you like, we expect them to use their influence in order not to intervene in the event of an incident, but to prevent any such incident. That is, we expect them to act in a preemptive way, before we come to the point you previously mentioned. And I believe that this time the Mitsotakis’ visit to the US has allowed us to claim that the US understands the Greek position.
M. ZACHAREA: Now I would like to turn to the other story that came out from this visit, the announcement by the Prime Minister that we will procure F-35 fighter jets over a period of years, while at the same time Turkey is pushing for the upgrade of its own F-16 fighter jets. Where do we stand regarding this issue and what will the deployment of the F-35 fighter jets over the Aegean mean for us?
N. DENDIAS: I should tell you that the issue no longer falls within my competence, it falls within Nikos Panagiotopoulos’ competence. I will only make a general statement. The F-35 aircraft is an excellent weapon, it is a 5th generation aircraft, which, at some point, should become part of the Greek arsenal. What happened with the Prime Minister’s visit is that we started a long process, it will take time. But what I have to tell you is that the request was warmly received. I did not notice any quibbles about whether the US should give them to us, whether they are willing, or whether it is appropriate or useful. And this constitutes yet another reward for the consistent and serious stance Greece has demonstrated all this time.
Now, as regards Turkey. Greece is not in conflict with Turkey. It says something simple, though: that, if Turkey has specific weapons systems, assurances should be given that Turkey will not use them against Greece. Consequently, Greece cannot agree, to the extent it has a say, on the supply of weapons systems to Turkey or the upgrade of existing weapons systems, if after a certain time they threaten us. We cannot do this thing. Accordingly, Greece will use all its capabilities and will turn to whomever it can in order to prevent the upgrade of Turkish weapons systems, as long as Turkey violates international law, as long as Turkey threatens us, and persists with the casus belli. If ever a different Turkey emerges, then there will be a different Greek stance as well. And Greece always and consistently wishes for this other Turkey to exist.
M. ZACHAREA: Would you say that these arguments, as you described them to us, in the discussions that took place in the USA and given the information that you have, found favorable ears in the Congress?
N. DENDIAS: It’s not for me to say. All you have to do is to look at the photos and snapshots. I think you will understand. I have to remind you that it is Mr. Menendez who is the Chairman of the Foreign Affairs Committee. The Congress’ stance towards Turkey is also well-known. It's not proper for me to speak on behalf of the US Congress; it's not proper for me to speak on behalf of the US President, or on behalf of Antony Blinken.
But the semantics of this visit and the way they welcomed and listened to us, I think, give all the answers that need to be given.
Beyond that, it is up to Turkey to change the US view with its conduct, with its attitude. It is up to Turkey to prove that it is a consistent and credible ally that cares for others and does not threaten its neighbours.
M. ZACHAREA: I would like to turn to another issue. Finland and Sweden have officially applied to join NATO. Is this a favourable development or is it something that should worry Europe? And I’m asking this because Putin used Ukraine’s request, its desire to join NATO, as an excuse to invade the country.
N. DENDIAS: I would like to tell you that President Putin took a position on this request, -since we are discussing this- and he said that the very fact of Finland’s and Sweden’s request to join NATO does not concern him. He would be concerned if weapons systems threatening Russia were to be deployed in these countries.
To tell you the truth, I think that what President Putin managed to succeed by invading Ukraine, is the very thing he wished to avoid, namely the strengthening of NATO, the greater unity of NATO, and the accession of new countries into NATO.
Greece is completely positive. Besides, I made a relevant statement before dinner in Berlin regarding the accession of Sweden and Finland. They are two friendly countries, two EU member states, two democracies with which we speak the same language and have a common understanding of several things.
And what makes a huge impression on us is the Turkish stance towards the two countries’ request.
M. ZACHAREA: That would be my next question because we see Erdogan has started horse-trading on this issue.
N. DENDIAS: Let me tell you, I think this is not the time for this and there is no room for it. There is an ongoing global crisis and Turkey is already quite exposed by not imposing sanctions on Russia. The fact that all the mega-yachts of the Russian oligarchs are berthed in Bodrum and along the coasts of Turkey is compromising Turkey, at a time when the Ukrainians are fighting for their existence and their independence.
Beyond that, the last thing Turkey should do - if I may say so because it is an independent country - is to employ oriental bargaining tactics. It will not be in its interest. It really won’t be. And because at the informal dinner, I heard Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu outline the Turkish arguments, that there is a security issue for Turkey because of Finland’s and Sweden’s accession, I have to say they are not convincing in the least. Turkey calls a terrorist anyone it is simply not fond of.
M. ZACHAREA: Let me come to another issue which you and the Prime Minister have discussed a lot in the USA, the energy issue. So how can Greece "take advantage" of all that we see happening in Europe these days due to the war in Ukraine in order to become an energy hub not only for us - to have energy sufficiency here - but to be able to supply our neighbours as well?
N. DENDIAS: Ms Zacharea, this is what is already happening. It is happening as we speak. A new Floating Storage and Regasification Unit (FSRU) in Alexandroupolis will be the source of supply for Bulgaria and several other countries in Eastern Europe and the Balkans, of liquefied natural gas, which will, of course, have been re-gasified previously.
Greece is being transformed into a transfer energy hub to Central Europe and Eastern Europe. And I think that this development constitutes an important vindication of the choice and the role of Alexandroupolis.
There are also the interconnectors, the transfer of electricity from Africa, from Asia; these are developments which we will see materializing in a very short time. Of course I am not talking about a week or two, or a month or two. And they will bear ample witness to the fact that Greece will be the most important energy hub in the Eastern Mediterranean.
This comes to strengthen our geopolitical role; it comes to strengthen our footprint and also to create growth and jobs in our country.
M. ZACHAREA: Let us conclude with a comment of yours on the opposition's allegations. We heard a lot in the last 48 hours. We heard that we did not get anything tangible as a result, that we did not hear Mr. Biden say explicitly that he was not going to sell F-16 aircraft to Turkey, that we became the 51st or the 52nd State of the USA, etc. So, I would like your assessment of all this.
N. DENDIAS: I think that the pre-election year has dawned or, in any case, it is dawning on the horizon. And this drives the opposition to formulate positions, which, you will allow me to say, are petty political and sound miserable. What I would expect from a genuine opposition that has every right to exert criticism on us and should criticize us is at least to say a few good words about the Prime Minister’s visit to the USA, which was excellent for Greece. Because, as you know, the one who will reap the benefits of it all is neither Mitsotakis nor the New Democracy party, it’s our homeland. And there is no room for petty partisan misery in all this. We needn’t share the national capital. It belongs to all of us, it is there for all of us and we should all celebrate. If I were the leader of the opposition, with all due respect, I would have congratulated Kyriakos Mitsotakis for his excellent speech in Congress.
M. ZACHAREA: Minister, thank you very much for the discussion we had.
N. DENDIAS: And I thank you.
May 18, 2022